If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Ball: Titleist AVX Yellow. GolfWRX_Spotted posted a topic in Tour and Pre-Release Equipment, February 20, GolfWRX_Spotted posted a topic in Tour and Pre-Release Equipment, February 13, GolfWRX_Spotted posted a topic in Tour and Pre-Release Equipment, February 6, GolfWRX_Spotted posted a topic in Tour and Pre-Release Equipment, January 31, GolfWRX_Spotted posted a topic in Tour and Pre-Release Equipment, January 23, Please put any questions or comments here, Please put any questions of comments here, Please put any questions or Comments here. If the course is open, eightsomes are not out of the question. His work has been anthologized in The Best American Sportswriting. By the way sometimes the wind there isn't able to be adjusted for. Proudly created with. If you sense their eyes upon you, scrutinizing every swing, thats a good thing: theyre trying to make sure you dont lose a ball. As for caddies. I'm hearing of some groups renting nearby houses that cater to golf groups and the feedback has been nothing but positive. I've only made the drive from Portland once, which is enough. Clubs that never used tee timeslike Winged Foot now require members to sign up in advance online. We've never had to deal with rain, temperatures are in the mid-60s, but the summer winds are at least two clubs strong. Certainly worth the expense in my opinion. Feb 27. Thanks. Garrett was on the level with the best resort caddies I have used. From Southwest Oregon Regional Airport in Coos Bay, it's 30 to 40 minutes. I eat most of my meals at the Tufted Puffin, which is the open and airy restaurant in the main lodge, and it's conducive to eating while watching sports or weary golfers chase the remaining light as they play the 18th at Bandon. WebHow much do caddies make at Bandon Dunes? Speaking of stories, on a Bandon trip I made a few years back, I was told that Steph Curry had just been at the resort and had a great time with the caddies in his group, so much so that hed driven to downtown Bandon in the evening to shoot pool and shoot the breeze at the Arcade Tavern, a popular caddie hangout. Looking for names of caddies persons have used. Great time had by all! A tribute to Charles Blair Macdonald, the father of golf in the United States, Doak and Urbina were asked to use some of the design strategies made famous by Macdonald's template holes, which are 25 to 30 of what Macdonald considered the best of golf holes in Great Britain (and France). Amateur Championship on Thursday. Mizzy JPX 919 forged I had the distinct privilege of following one of Bandon's top guns-for-hire around a loop at the original course on property: Bandon Dunes. 2023 by THE BAG BANDIT. You can post now and register later. I like to play Bandon in the late afternoon because there's nothing like playing the four finishing holes at sunset. Travel mailbag: Should you get a hard or soft travel bag when flying? And Bandon Trails, from a pure golf course design standpoint, is the best 18 holes out here. This is Dream Golf. Enjoy your trip. And the Bandon Dunes caddie shack is behind Gonzales, just like he has been pulling for the past winners with his colleagues on their bags. It's a concentrated form of buddies, banter and betting that takes place on a golf course, but you'll never use more than one ball and a flatstick. Thanks for the great info! The Old Macdonald Course opened in 2010 and was built by Tom Doak and Jim Urbina. It's a matter of "how far does this play into the wind? for 30 days, Free I'd still take it, it won't weigh you down. Rounds played were up this summer, often dramatically, as were sales of beginner sets at retaila good indicator of vitality. We are hoping this seventh USGA Championship winner has a caddie on the bag, Quattrocchi said. L.A.'s massive golfing year is officially underway (with plenty more to come), The best golf vibes in LA are at this Santa Monica muni, The 10 most expensive tee times in Phoenix/Scottsdale on Super Bowl weekend, Golf in L.A. can blind with star power, but don't forget about the rest, For Wenyi Ding, the first man from China to win a USGA event, the sky appears to be the limit, New Tom Doak design coming to acclaimed Top 100 property in Scotland, Travel mailbag: The best courses in the Phoenix area for a bachelor party. Low 33F. 2023 by THE BAG BANDIT. All green fees at the four big courses at Bandon Dunes range from $75 in November thru January, to $250 in September (Replay rates are $40 $125). Many are characters, with stories to tell. Its also nice to be able to shoot a random tree or whatever else they may want a distance to. PXG Gen2 10.5 Ventus 6S Love the wife!! Booked Matt for my trip March 19-24. Top 100 Courses in the U.S.: GOLFs all-new 2022-23 ranking is here! The goal of any caddie should be that their players enjoy themselves: whether that means supplying the stories and laughs for an on-course party, or approaching each shot with the care and direction of a professional tournament round. my other question is, do the caddies at Bandon get the entire $100 fee or does the course get a part of that? For the best sunsets, play Bandon Dunes in the evening. Welcome to GOLFs Travel Mailbag, a weekly, interactive GOLF.com series in which members of our staff field your course- and travel-related queries. Please support our site. Sweeping, untamed shores stretch for miles. The website suggests I just returned form Bandon Dunes. This isnt your all-inclusive, strawberry daiquiri slurp-fest, where guests shuffle past you in search of the dinner buffet and. Most caddies with use a range finder and if they dont its because they know the course well enough they dont need one. We are experiencing a higher demand for reservations than usual. Sanitation Support Services is a multifaceted company that seeks to provide solutions in cleaning, Support and Supply of cleaning equipment for our valued clients across Africa and the outside countries. Or even start double checking ones to the pin if you think your guy is off. Mizzy CLK hybrid Great idea in asking for recommendations. Throughout Thursdays win Ott, as well as in two earlier wins and the qualifying and practice rounds, Hagestad and Gonzales discussed approach angles for holes, the lines of putts, how much the wind might impact ball flight and the best spots to aim for, though Gonzales downplayed his role. [quote name='DMR2112' timestamp='1309840674' post='3365048'] You look for little things to determine what type of caddie youll be today: is the player meticulously studying the scorecard and yardage book on the first tee, figuring out how to pick apart the golf course? The benefit of staying here is being under the same roof as the Bunker Bar, so if you have a late night and a few too many drinks, stumbling to your room is easy. A great golf trip. Proudly created with Wix.com. Caddies get all of the money at Bandon..so $120 will def put a smile on their face. Even $110 wont have them mad Tweet me @MattGinellaGC. I must say, JB was the best caddie I have ever experienced. Thank you for reading! I remember him saying he's been at Bandon for 7+ years. Golf carts are frowned upon, but are available if you have medical justification. Maybe you share some or all of those concerns. The Bunker Bar delivers an almost confidential group setting while serving the finest cigars and spirits you can find on property. I always bring two pairs of golf shoes (in case one gets wet or they're causing blisters). There's a drink shack centrally located to several holes throughout the round. There was an error processing your request. Bandon Dunes: The Happiest Place on Earth Yet another primer of the most special spot for golf sickos. Your previous content has been restored. SUBSCRIBE NOW! WebMany people at Bandon Dunes Golf Resort turn to a caddy because golf carts are not allowed. In my time as a caddie, I prided myself on correctly assuming how a players first tee shot would end up, squarely based on my first impression of their bag. Each cottage has four separate rooms with their own king bed, TV and bathroom. We opted to go with the full experience and getting caddies for each of our rounds. Copyright 2023 GolfPass. Where your average shack I was there in early February and I used James O for 2 rounds and my buddy used 76 year old Wyatt for 3 rounds. I just got back Saturday night. A lot of the caddies carry range finders on them as well. We liked the Pacific Dunes and Bandon Dunes courses as their best followed by Bandon Trails. On the contrary, the tree-lined fairways of Trails will provide more relief than any other course on property. Didn't take a caddy for any round the 1st time I went as I'd rather discover new courses myself and enjoy a little solitude. Display as a link instead, Both are excellent caddies, know the course, can read putts and can adjust guidance based on your ability (after about 4-6 holes) The caddies had rangefinders of their own (same model in one case) so I never needed it. For those unfamiliar with links, it refers to the area between In this challenging year, the worldwide pandemic endangers more than golf, but we recognize that caddies are at risk, not so much as carriers of golf bags for the well-heeled, but as a livelihood and a steppingstone for so many working-class people. The Punchbowl, a massive putting course designed by Tom Doak with Jim Our expectation is that a caddies performance will exceed your expectations and warrant at least the average stated above. Great pair of guys who definitely knew their games and courses. As is often the case at courses with compelling architecture, the potential advantages of a caddie are all the greater at Bandon if this is your first time on property. Matt serves as resident buddy trip expert and captains a collection of VIP trips called Golf Advisor Getaways. An email has been sent to with a link to confirm list signup. between the 4 of us in the group, we figured out all yardages, gps range etc. The Preserve is also always on the itinerary on the day I arrive, which is usually late in the afternoon, and those 13 holes of short-iron swings serve as a perfect links-golf warm up. To this day, it taught me how to treat people. So take one with you when you make your pilgrimage: youll learn more about the courses than you ever would on your own. BANDON KC Gonzales has been a caddie at Bandon Dunes Golf Resort since 2004, so hes intimately familiar with the courses at the renowned golf destination. Your previous content has been restored. Theyre on hand to help you, not to judge you. GOLF DIGEST MAY EARN A PORTION OF SALES FROM PRODUCTS THAT ARE PURCHASED THROUGH OUR SITE AS PART OF OUR AFFILIATE PARTNERSHIPS WITH RETAILERS. Posted April 21, 2021. Bandon, eh? Success! A Bandon caddie typically makes $125-$150 per loop, or roughly $20,000-$60,000 annually, depending on activity. After the trial period well bill your credit card just $15 per month. Playing the Preserve is also perfect for a getaway day in which you don't have time for a full 18. It exposed me to doctors and lawyers and Wall Street guys. Cleveland and Vokey Wedges, Taylormade Ti Fairways, PXG Putter, 2005 Callaways and a few other items. I'm not sure about fueling jets but the price of 100LL was very reasonable. but I never got through them. Matt Ginella is Golf Advisor's Editor-at-Large and host of Golf Advisor Round Trip travel series on Golf Channel. So you only paid the base $100/bag each round, until you got to the final round? I always pay $120-140 per round (high end if the weather was terri I enjoyed being around people, hearing their conversations, he says. Whenever I can, I take a caddie. WebLodging Rates - Bandon Dunes Golf Lodging Rates 2022 2023 2024 Search: Rooms 2022 Unavailable Limited Availability Available 1 2 3 Exit Planner We are experiencing a higher demand for reservations than usual. They combine with all the essential elements to reveal a new golf experience every time you play. Downstairs at McKee's Pub can be crowded and loud, but upstairs is a good option for a big group. Winds NNE at 5 to 10 mph.. The layout is the perfect mix of challenge and forgiveness and there are plenty of ocean views and memorable holes. I've been once and it was good, but it's too quiet for my taste and there are no TVs. USE OF AND/OR REGISTRATION ON ANY PORTION OF THIS SITE CONSTITUTES ACCEPTANCE OF OURVISITOR AGREEMENT(UPDATED 1/6/23),PRIVACY AND COOKIES NOTICE(UPDATED 1/4/23) ANDCALIFORNIA PRIVACY NOTICE. Its fun to watch, Gonzales said, likening giving advice to playing a video game. The four-bedroom suites range from $800-$1,700 per night. We get there Sep 7. | RoboTest, Arnold Palmer Invitational presented by Mastercard. He is also the co-author, with Sammy Hagar, of Are We Having Any Fun Yet: the Cooking and Partying Handbook. Tim Farrell via Facebook. Read all The World's news online FREE, for 30 days at no charge. Quote. Proudly created with. We're sorry, there appears to be no availability for those dates. A more understated beauty exists here: Golf as it was meant to be, its well-earned slogan. I've been taking my annual buddies trip in July and August. He may not be availble all year as he is going back to school in Portland. Here, players immerse themselves in the traditions of a timeless game and the grandeur of Oregons rugged coast. Yesthat is more than acceptable. If at the end, you think a "bonus" is warranted, that is also an option - I usually do this. If you don't have Cheers! Are there Senior (70+) tees, less than 5400 yards, at all the courses? [quote name='wascana' timestamp='1288554086' post='2767831'] I echo the guys saying leave it in the bag or at home. Take the rangefinder. This Scottish-style setting serves traditional hearty pub fare, Pacific Northwest microbrews and classic single malt scotches accompanied by a look into the resorts history on the walls. Don't remember his last name, but Cedric was one of the best caddies I've had at Bandon. From Eugene, it's two-to-three hours. I still get chills driving through the gates, he says. Because of the no-congregating rules, Beverly shut down its caddie shack and used wave scheduling with Google Forms to bring in 20 to 30 caddies at a time in 90-minute intervals. Yes, I know about the Sheep Ranch, another course loosely affiliated with Bandon Dunes, but I've never been and never make it a priority. I was fortunate to have JB on my bag for half of my rounds and Dave for the other half. The original golf course, Bandon Dunes, opened in 1999 and was designed by David McLay Kidd. No matter how well, or how poorly, you play, theyve seen better and theyve seen worse. Caddies are $80-100 per bag, per round. Amateur Public Links Championship and he also was caddie for a golfer during last years U.S. To call Bandon a resort is a slight. Junior Amateur Championship, conducted by the USGA at Bandon Dunes Golf Resort in Bandon, Ore., July 25-30 Great article only heightens my expectations of our CGA April trip. If you need help with exactly how your specific name needs be entered, please email us at admin@countrymedia.net or call us at 1-541 266 6047. I cant hit these shots, but I know he can.. All five lodging options at Bandon Dunes are spartan in the dcor and amenities, but I find them to all be a perfect fit with the general aesthetics of the resort and the needs of the avid-golfing guests. See What Members Are Saying! Subscribe starting at $15/month or $99.00/year, or claim your FREE access if you are already a subscriber. If their hands are on the softer side, I can guess they work an office job, or dont really spend a ton of time outdoors. For updated results and results throughout the weekend, including Sunday's 36-hole final, visit www.usga.org. The menu focuses on Pacific Northwest beef, pork, and lamb, accompanied by seafood from around the globe and enhanced with locally sourced produce. Just trying to know what to expect. Pacific Dunes opened in 2001 and was designed by Tom Doak. (I'd listen to your looper.). Theres also this: If youre open to engaging with them, most caddies make great company. Illegal marijuana grow busted in Coos County, Local Basketball Round Up: Amazing rally puts Bandon girls in state tournament, Reducing Homelessness: Gov. They combine with all the essential elements to reveal a new golf experience every time you play. It means a lot to me, the caddie program, and the resort for our caddies to be involved, Quattrocchi said, adding he knows the feelings are the same for resort owner Mike Kesier, himself a former caddie. From double greens, "Hell Bunker," and a "Biarritz" (which is a large and deep swale intersecting the green), Old Mac is a mix of quirky, fun and extremely forgiving off the tee. We hope that you continue to enjoy our free content. That wouldnt have made for much of a story, except this wasnt just any guy. I have some names from this thread and from some others. 1964 Acushnet O-SET M6S Bullseye PutterNew stuff Larry Foley describes himself as a hustler, an investor and an entrepreneur. SINGLE KING & 4 BEDROOM SUITE 1-8 GUESTS, DOUBLE KING & 2 SINGLE KING LOFT 2-4 GUESTS, DOUBLE QUEEN SINGLE KING 2-4 GUESTS, DOUBLE QUEEN SINGLE KING 2-4 GUESTS. Curious, now being on the other side of the bag, I asked Squid how hed sized me up: what were some impressions hed made from our first few holes together? Leaving the flagstick in, kicking over your footprints in the sand instead of raking bunkers, and taking a more casual attitude toward the rules have sped up play and increased golf participation. Scotty Cameron Pro Platinum Napa. Please see our availability calendar for our latest lodging availability. John Kaczkowski, president and CEO of the Western Golf Association, which currently awards full rides to college for 1,045 Evans Caddie Scholars, says the coronavirus actually has helped modernize programs at a lot of clubs. The other thing to remember is that caddies are adaptable and undemanding. The other caddies either did the same or had their own. You can use one of the free carry bags at the Preserve "pro shop," and you won't need much more than a 6-iron as you roam around the undulating dunes in less than 90 minutes. Often mentioned as one of our guests favorite dining experiences, Trails End in the Bandon Trails Clubhouse offers Pacific Rim-focused plates from first light to well into the night. If anything, it should deserve a bonus and not a discount, We flew from London to Seattle, drove to eugene and played a couple of great courses there, then we drove to Florence, did a bit of casino action and played Florence links, a great value course. WebScoring, articles, photos, videos and all content related to the 2022 U.S. The caddies hope to carry on a strong tradition that includes the champions of each of the individual and team USGA events using a Bandon Dunes caddie. August 12, 2020. In my time as a caddie, I prided myself on correctly assuming how a players first tee shot would end up, squarely based on my first impression of their bag. 2 Couldve said I was busy today.. Mike Keiser had achieved great success in business and had the resources to pursue his passion. Do most (or all) of the caddies there have range finders? Single-room rates range from $100 to $300 per night, depending on time of the year. access for current print subscribers. greebs.substack.com. Thanks. Named for the former caretaker of the land that has been used to build the resort, you and your group can pick teeing areas and greens in which you can duplicate the same kind of fun being had at Preserve. There is plenty of transit parking and the airport crew watches over the planes lovingly. Im envious, but Ill try not to hold that against you. Share this post. owner of Bandon Dunes in Oregon and Sand Just want to check when I should call the shack to book. Proudly created with Wix.com. There are 17 single rooms (queen bed) and three four-bedroom suites. perfect, thanks for the input, we requested Squid, if he is available. What do the hands do during the impact and follow through? I thought I could learn different things from different people. Someday I'm going to go back and play Bandon myself, and I'd use Seth if he was still there. 5 Testers Needed! The drive from Eugene isn't bad. Enjoy, best trip I have ever been on and can't wait for March to get here for round 2! My guess is that if you wind up getting someone on your bag at Bandon, you might be tempted to do the same. Winter rates are $45. Most phones or handheld GPS devices won't hold a charge for 36 holes so wondering how accurate the caddies' ranges are. Have used search and found some names. A couple weeks before my Dad and I played there, Michael Jordan played there and gave his caddy a $5000 tip. Maybe consider that amount on the upsi The amount of any fee is the sole discretion of the player. The 60-acre Practice Center allows for the refinement of every possible shot. That was before the opening of Sheep Ranch, Bandons fifth 18-hole course (you can read more about that here), otherwise, though, all the basics still apply. I brought a skycaddie on my first visit. But raw yardage, and adjusted yardages for elevation change and wind, I've never found them off by much. Are golf tees too common an item to be worth adding to your golf collection? Almost 90 percent of my trips to Bandon, I've flown into Coos Bay/North Bend airport (OTH). The way I reconcile the fee plus tip is to divide by hours on the bag. Normally it works out to approx 5 hours all together. This is especially tru Went in March and had caddie for 1st round then opted to just carry my own bag the rest of the trip and use my range finder. 1. The caddies hope to carry on a strong tradition that includes the champions of each of the individual and team USGA events using a Bandon Dunes caddie. Even in the afternoon winds it can still be fun. A Bandon caddie typically makes $125-$150 per loop, or roughly $20,000-$60,000 annually, depending on activity. Off-course highlights include a massage center, extensive practice facility, small hot tub, gym and walking trails. Also, any specific caddies to ask for by name at the Straits? I carry a small external battery for my phone when I play 36. Use tab to navigate through the menu items. Matt you left out the airport at Bandon State (S05). Winds light and variable. 10 things you must know about golf at Bandon Dunes in Oregon. Titleist SM6 54 S Grind Some places like that you will have the same caddie for all of your rounds so dont stiff them on the first day or it will be a long trip. Caddies are wizards at reading people, and it all starts with a handshake. Youve probably heard it said that golf is 90 percent mental, and 10 percent mental. Jimmy Coffey, the son of a Winged Foot caddie, followed in the family business and caddied at Winged Foot from 1986-96. The Club House. As for your other question the caddie conundrum the answer is a little more involved. Caddies at Bandon Dunes are tasked with knowing how every square foot of ground moves at the complex. Doubles range from $150 to $390 per night. The club decided to forgo compulsory caddies for the season and sold 200 pushcarts. Travel mailbag: How far in advance do I need to book a Bandon Dunes trip? Several Bandon Dunes caddies had hoped to qualify to play in the tournament, but their chances ended when USGA canceled all qualifying due to the COVID-19 pandemic. Our services ensure you have more time with your loved ones and can focus on the aspects of your life that are more important to you than the cleaning and maintenance work. Paste as plain text instead, Rates drop for groups of more than eight). I'm sure married couples would disagree with my assessment. This not only gives the caddies some added schedule predictability, but allows a relationship to be forged between both partiesfor you to feel comfortable with someone shepherding you around the place, and for the caddie to tailor their communication to you. I think Crazy may be gone (law school), JB should still be there. The Grove Cottages are the envy of every foursome. Sep 9: Bandon Dunes morning; Bandon Trails PM He started off using my rangefinder, but had trouble getting it to read the pin (don't ask my why as it seems easy to me). I'm a 15 handicap but he would be great for a player of any skill level. Beneath the iconic tree behind the 16th green and 17th tee -- where you enjoy a 180-degree view of the Oregon coastline -- is my favorite spot in golf. Thank you for submitting your reservation request. Amateur Four-Ball Championship, said having a local caddie is invaluable. We have wide a network of offices in all major locations to help you with the services we offer, With the help of our worldwide partners we provide you with all sanitation and cleaning needs. Youll find some of your favorite BBQ entrees and sides as well as cold beverages that can easily be taken to go or enjoyed at the indoor and outdoor dining tables. Your nickname has to be earned, Squid says; bestowed upon you by the tribe of 400, for one reason or another. 1984 Ben Hogan Apex PC 2-E 1968 Wilson Dual Wedge The soul of the game resides here. What did I miss? Pros and cons for each route, Why skimp on paying the caddy when they go 36? These are course-knowledge layouts, and no one knows them better than the loopers. DR Please see our availability calendar for our latest lodging availability. RELATED: How the PGA Tour resumed its season, navigated a pandemic and played its way to the Tour Championship, Legitimate concerns about spreading infection persist at courses where many golfers are elderly or live with family members at risk. APPLY NOW: Cleveland Frontline Elite Putters! This isnt your all-inclusive, strawberry daiquiri slurp-fest, where guests shuffle past you in search of the dinner buffet and tonights Dolly Parton impersonator. Decades ago, another guy fell in love with the game of golf. Beds and lob wedges have a lot in common at Bandon Dunes -- you use them only when absolutely necessary. From Portland, it's a four to five-hour drive. Garrett - he's one of the veterans. Ill be going solo here soon and cant wait..got tired of waiting for my buddies to want to go, so solo it is! Sorry, no promotional deals were found matching that code. Its hard not to. To have five of the best in the world at one resort is a privilege. Some guys will force shorts, but I generally wear pants, golf shirt and a sweater, even in the summer. Also Check out Wayneebaby on this board (eric is his name), very nice guy. Minnesota Mike or Sweet Louboth are fun guys to have on the bag. Caddies have played an integral role in golf for more than 500 years, and the program at Bandon Dunes is among the best in the world. Thanks for the great info! Our cleaning services and equipments are affordable and our cleaning experts are highly trained. Evnroll ER6. The polarizing 14th hole has been softened several times. Its up to them to gauge your personality and figure out which balance of those skills will enhance your playing experience. And there are plenty of sprinklers that give that same info. Schedule a late-afternoon round at Bandon Dunes. I highly recommend Andy. I know there's a gentleman's club, but I've never been there either (and I've never heard a favorable review). Then onto bandon, we loved them all but we surprisingly liked bandon trails the most. Theyve witnessed it all. TSi2@ 21.75* (Motore X F3 7S, -2g, tip'd .5"), 818 H1 @ 24* (Diamana S+ 82S, tip'd 1.5"), ZipCore 55/11, 59/7 (Modus3 105 -S ssx1, 1* flat). The soul of the game resides here. I know it means a lot to Mr. Keiser that the caddies are involved.. And prepare to have a blast. Your link has been automatically embedded. (the caddie the 1st day was the best) Bandon Preserve is a 13-hole, par-3 course that opened in 2012 and fills the void of golfers not willing and/or able to play 36 holes of championship golf every day. Tweet us at @golf_com. The fire pit outside of McKee's Pub is a popular spot and so is the fire pit on the back deck of Pacific Dunes. GolfWRX_Spotted posted a topic in Tour and Pre-Release Equipment, February 20, GolfWRX_Spotted posted a topic in Tour and Pre-Release Equipment, February 13, GolfWRX_Spotted posted a topic in Tour and Pre-Release Equipment, February 6, GolfWRX_Spotted posted a topic in Tour and Pre-Release Equipment, January 31, GolfWRX_Spotted posted a topic in Tour and Pre-Release Equipment, January 23, Please put any questions or comments here, Please put any questions of comments here, Please put any questions or Comments here, @ 21.75* (Motore X F3 7S, -2g, tip'd .5"). The cottages are closed in November thru January, but range in price from $1,200-$1,900 per night. The fourth and 13th holes are in the conversation about the best par 4s in the country.