2022;12(08):363-426. doi:10.4236/ojss.2022.128016. My claim was approved and Im 100% disabled. You will now be able to tab or arrow up or down through the submenu options to access/activate the submenu links. I have 3 women whom were station at Fort McCellan, AL (and the community has already won a lawsuit if the information I have read is correct) with the WACs. I got home in Jan 70 and showed signs of hyper thyroid disease in October 70. I would go again if told again. VAs Agent Orange Registry health exam alerts Veterans to possible long-term health problems that may be related to Agent Orange exposure during their military service. I currently have had a claim in , even though the va . Was it Agent Orange? 1989;27(2):165-171. doi:10.1080/15287398909531288. I was rated 30% upon retirement after 30 years for Advancd Atherosclorisis. ) or https:// means youve safely connected to the .gov website. I filed a claim for unemployability because of my limitations and they ignore it. Please President Obama. diarrhea. Use more good research. This has been a fifteen year odyssey, please help me if you can. Hit enter to expand a main menu option (Health, Benefits, etc). Does he need to be wheelchair bound ? The registry data helps VA understand and respond to these health problems more effectively. I have been receiving since my husbands death in 2007. AO was in our drinking water, coffee, and food0. Despite being 81 he was mentally sharp; terrific pain and he stopped eating and drinking to hasten his demise. I sent the VA a copy of my DD Form 214, which they said they couldnt read. Cleveland, OH: 600 Superior Ave. East, Fifth Third Building, Suite 1300, Cleveland, OH, 44114 I agree. Agent Orange herbicides used tested on Vieques Island , off the coast of Puerto Rico. If someone has the rash that looks like ringworm, use old spice deodorant on it. I dont understand why males are not given the same consideration for passing on birth defects as women are. I was stationed at Bien Hoa AFB from 70-72 we could see them spraying this stuff.I went to the VA for Agent Orange screening and the lady told me ,We dont take blood work nor x-Ray anyone we just take down your information most vets come in here to have their benefits encreast .when we left she told the lady behind the disk ,Dont you ever send me an Agent Orange vet again, ,they both looked at me like I was the bad guy. Compensation is based on the condition, its severity (defined according to standard VA tables and physicians guides), and your familial status. then have the legion va rep file a claim for all of your medical conditions, whether you think they are related to agent orange or not is irrelevant. Tim Discher, Served in Marine Corps, 1967-1970 Vietnam. I believe they need to look deeper into medical issues with children of all vets who served during that time. When dioxins contaminate soil or water supplies, the food generated from these sources can be toxic. Tucson, AZ: One South Church Avenue, 12th Floor, Tucson, AZ, 85701 Some children of Vietnam veterans may be eligible for VA benefits if they're living with a permanent mental or physical disability linked to their parents' Agent Orange exposure. The most harmful ingredient in Agent Orange is called 2,3,7,8 Before making statistical adjustments for risk of death, demographic variables, and medical and psychiatric conditions, veterans with Agent Orange exposure were about twice as likely to be diagnosed with dementia1,918 of 38,121, or 5 percentcompared with non-exposed vets: 6,886 of 278,230, or 2 percent. My claim is now being processed. Tuyet-Hanh TT, Vu-Anh L, Ngoc-Bich N, Tenkate T. Environmental health risk assessment of dioxin exposure through foods in a dioxin hot spotBien Hoa City, Vietnam. Tim Discher. You just have to start your VA claim and presumptive service connection should be extended for your veterans disability claim. By clicking Accept All Cookies, you agree to the storing of cookies on your device to enhance site navigation, analyze site usage, and assist in our marketing efforts. I applied for VA benefits for children born with birth defects and was denied. I, too, have NEVER been able to have children. I filed a claim, and the VA requested my service Medical records, which they never have received, i also requested the records. Separately, the U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs awarded compensation to about 1,800 veterans. Ingesting it while eating or drinking food or beverages that the herbicide touched. He was been suffering for PTSD, after was what happened to their Navy Ships, My husband one of crews who survived the era of Gulf War. Richmond, VA: 7400 Beaufont Springs Drive, Suite 300, Richmond, VA, 23225 U.S. Department of Veteran Affairs. blue water navy here on board the Robert k hunington dd781 we cooked washed with agent orange water I have chest pain dibeties type 2 when will the v help us. Agent Orange is a mixture of herbicides used during the Vietnam War by the U.S. military to defoliate forests and clear other vegetation. Im not saying all reps are like that but of they are dealing with numerous claims, yours may take awhile. I DIDNT KNOW I HAVE A DISEASE CALLED MM. The VA presumes that certain birth defects in the biological children of female Vietnam Veterans were caused by military service if the birth mother was in Vietnam between Feb. 28, 1961, and May 7, 1975. I remember him telling me in the early 80s he had received a check from the govt due to exposure to AO and then the checks stopped. U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs. Heart problems. Over 300,000 U.S. veterans and over 400,000 Vietnamese people died from exposure to Agent Orange from 1962 to 1971. 64-68 marine. (My father was an Italian immigrant; not sure how my extended family in Italy passed.) There are several other medical conditions that appear to be strongly linked to Agent Orange exposure, but which have not yet been added to the presumptive list: Again, if you have any symptoms that are severe or that worry you, you should seek medical attention, either through the VA health care system or your own providers. Prior to his passing, he started the process for benefits after his passing, his benefits were approved. Skin conditions and skin disorders associated with Agent Orange, Other presumptive diseases associated with Agent Orange. My husband served in Vietnam 1967-1968. Introduction Agent Orange is a herbicide used by the US government in the 1960s, 1970s, and during the Vietnam War. The IOM looks for the highest quality studies. Thank you, {{form.email}}, for signing up. Did my basic there in 1973/74 and then ended up there again until I got out in 12/76. Updates? Shortness of breath or difficulty breathing. Thank you for your help. At first, I thought the statute of limitations had run out on me, after all, it has been almost 40 years since I was exposed. My Husband Paul G. his Veteran Disabled For young ages, he was only 34yrs old. mainly because of my ptsd and from a business that I thought that serves exclusively to military. Thank You for your time and service. Although the autopsy stated he died from HCM and doctors/research post-mortem said its genetic, no one I know of in my (paternal) family history has/had heart failure. I applied at the local Veterans Affairs office. The U.S. banned the use and production of the herbicide in 1971 after evidence of the deadly and harmful effects of Agent Orange became apparent. Hill & Ponton P.A. Assign the higher evaluation (i.e. minimum 30 percent rating for the disease itself or the combined rating of the symptoms) Examples of symptoms/residuals of Parkinsons disease that VA can evaluate when assigning a disability rating include the following: Difficulty swallowing (dysphagia) DC 7203. I was in the Navy from 1962 to 1966 and was in Vietnam up and down the rivers and qualify under agent orange. BUT I WAS A MERSHANT SEAMAN ON A SHIP TAKING BOMBS UP THE SAGON RIVER AND TO DA NANG THREE TRIPS ONE EVERY YEAR RA24652607, Another example of great tactics by the US Military. Why wont the US Government cover her? You do not have to submit to an Agent Orange Registry Health Exam to receive other VA benefits. Now, he is thinking the war isnt over, do to him fighting for his life, my life, my brothers life and my sister life, al do to Agent Orange Exposure. Unfortunately no-one of the issues we have are recognized. There is DoD evidence that there are residuals in the soil yet The govt denies it was ever tested there. I know Agent Orange was tested there in the 50s. What are the health effects of Agent Orange exposure? Veterans are eligible to receive an Agent Orange health exam, clinical treatment and healthcare benefits. Chloracne is similar to other types of acne that block hair follicles, such as acne vulgaris. Learn how ricin Because of its high dioxin content, Agent Orange is a carcinogen, meaning that it can cause cancer in those who are exposed. To qualify for presumptive VA benefits for Agent Orange exposure, you must be able to show: Army veterans who served on these installations may qualify if you were a military policeman or can otherwise provide evidence you were stationed around the security perimeter of these bases. My Dad passed in 2009 due go Agent Orange. Good Luck to you. A senate hesring expised this 1994 time frame. My husband was in Pleiku, Vietnam 1967-1968. His hematologist/oncologist said it had to be the Agent Orange. Columbus, OH: 100 E. Campus View Boulevard, Suite #250, Columbus, OH, 43235 Why did they deny her claim? 2010;7(5):2395-2406. doi:10.3390/ijerph7052395. U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs. Veterans and Agent Orange. We are sorry that this post was not as useful for you! There isn't a specific test to show if you are an Agent Orange victim. Prickling, numbness or tingling in feet and hands, Sharp, throbbing, burning or jabbing pains, Blood pressure changes resulting in lightheadedness or dizziness, Hyperosmolar hyperglycemic nonketotic syndrome, Enlarged tongue, sometimes scalloped around the edge, Unexplained weight loss of 10 pounds or more. The chemicals in the herbicide caused Agent Orange effects. A study published in a peer-reviewed medical or scientific journal may be acceptable. Agent Orange, mixture of herbicides that U.S. military forces sprayed in Vietnam from 1962 to 1971 during the Vietnam War for the dual purpose of defoliating forest areas that might conceal Viet Cong and North Vietnamese forces and destroying crops that might feed the enemy. Agent Orange was one of several herbicides used in Vietnam, the others including Agents White, Purple, Blue, Pink, and Green. If youre a veteran who served in the U.S. military during the Vietnam conflict between 1962 and 1975, you may have been exposed to the toxic herbicide if you: If you met any of the above criteria, contact your healthcare provider or the U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs. . Is my mother eligible for compensation? the Summary. In 1984, a class-action lawsuit by over 100,000 Vietnam veterans led to the Agent Orange Act of 1991 and presumptive disability benefits for those exposed to it herbicide during military service. They will be able to work around the red tape inherent to any government program. Contact your local VA Environmental Health Coordinator about getting an Agent Orange Registry health exam. Get useful, helpful and relevant health + wellness information. Skin diseases associated with Agent Orange and other organochlorine exposures. I have located a very similar Agent Orange claim that was approved. Wishing they would recognize children with other health issues. When dioxin enters your body, it can damage or destroy vital organs, cells, your immune system and your hormones. Seems funny that Prostrate Cancer is listed yet not Colon Cancer. Our children both have reproductive defects, daughter with t-shaped uterus, had to have hysterectomy in 20s. People got the effects of Agent Orange after exposure to the herbicide. This article provides a brief history of Agent Orange's role in the Vietnam War and discusses the long-term effects of exposure to the toxic dioxins in this herbicide. File online and make sure you have all supporting documents when you submit. I served as a commo man with the 27 engr. Chloracne (or similar acneiform diseases). That. I have a son born 1-yr after returning from Vietnam that has heart issues and reproductive issues. You for got to add Korea to the mix we who service in Korea should be add to that list we were at War over there to and like our brother who service in Vietnam we are suffering to but our Government wont the world to for get us we all should never have to ask this Country for help are have to prove where we were they no where we were. There is no obligation to do so. 101st Airborne (Vietnam, 1967-68), Chico, Ca. In 2018, a systematic review of the long-term health effects of Agent Orange exposure in the Vietnam War concluded that there wasn't sufficient scientific evidence to confirm a link between tactical herbicide exposure and birth defects in the descendants of Vietnam veterans. Please file a claim with the VA if you are eligible to do so. My genes were altered be it. To the best of my knowledge all cases submitted to the VA have been denied. Agent Orange and other herbicides used in Vietnam were used, tested or stored elsewhere, including some military bases in the United States. If the water level was such that it reached one of these body areas, it was deep enough to reach the other. We sat in DaNang Harbor and fired support. A paternal environmental legacy: evidence for epigenetic inheritance through the male germ line. Agent Orange effects range in severity. Unbelievable. My husband got it, you can too. The good news for those who are discouraged is that, once the claim is filed, and in my case it took several years later and numerous examination visits by VA contract doctors to confirm and verify the conditions, I was awarded a settlement that was retroactive to the original claim date. Before we get started below, you can watch one of our videos on Agent Orange benefits right here! Agent Orange exposure and VA disability compensation. Agent Orange is a mixture of herbicides used during the Vietnam War by the U.S. military to defoliate forests and clear other vegetation. Respectfully Yours, Susana G. msgie9@gmail.com, Its to get a lawyer!. U.S. Department of Veteran Affairs. The most common birth defect caused by Agent Orange is spina bifida. Do the effects of Agent Orange cause birth defects? Blistering or increased hair growth on areas of skin exposed to sunlight. Treatment for one person wont be the same for someone else because each persons body reacts differently to the toxic chemicals in the herbicide. Get a Free Case Evaluation, health care system to receive a registry health exam, Agent Orange Babies: The Effects of Agent Orange on Veteran's Offspring, Agent Orange Presumptive Benefits and Presumptive Conditions. We were out there from march 69 to October 69. Parkinsons My husband is battling Agent Orange complications, but the VA is very difficult to deal with regarding increasing his disability rating. when i arrived at harlingen AFB, tx., there was a notification on the bulletin board that we were to begin using a new safe chemical to wash compressor parts during overhaul & service. The CFR rating schedule for this is 70% and while they admit it and recognize it, they give me nothing for it. Participation is voluntary. To apply, you will need to show scientific evidence that your condition is related to Agent Orange exposure. Pulled many ambushes at the end of the air base runway. I have filed, re-filed and re-filed an Agent Orange claim and each time there have been problems with it. I had a radioactive isotope to kill the thyroid and have taken synthyroid for over 40 yes. Agent Orange and intergenerational effects. I do know that my paternal grandfather died from liver failure; my paternal uncle passed from a brain aneurysm; my paternal grandmother died of congestive heart disease and other complications of being 94. Take the list of potential disorders post exposure to your primary doctor. C-123 crewmen and maintenance airmen may also qualify if they worked on C-123 planes between 1969 and 1986. My only daughter was born with Spina Bifida Occulta We didnt know until later in her life. They sprayed the surrounding area as well as other places. Cleveland Clinic Community Care puts patients first by offering comprehensive, coordinated, personalized healthcare. This compound is a particularly toxic form of dioxin. Share sensitive information only on official, secure websites. Agent Orange is known to have contained large amounts of 2,3,7,8-tetrachlorodibenzo-p-dioxin, or TCDD. More than 19 million gallons of various rainbow herbicide combinations were sprayed, but Agent Orange was the combination the U.S. military used most often. My dad served our country from 1969 to 72. Journal of Toxicology and Environmental Health. http://www.publichealth.va.gov/exposures/agentorange/benefits/children-birth-defects.asp. DC, I understand my friend! While we still have our home base in Florida, VA has recognized certain cancers and other health problems as presumptive diseases associated with exposure to Agent Orange or other herbicides during military service. Why does this have to be so hard? My GRIPE is, not matter how much money the VA gives him, he will never be happy again because of health condition but at least compensation for addition ailments will give us more time to enjoy whats left of his life!! Symptoms could include the following: The chemicals in Agent Orange caused several diseases and health-related issues in people who were exposed to the herbicide. CA: A Cancer Journal for Clinicians. It has only been 6 Months. The name Agent Orange came from the orange identifying stripe used on the 55-gallon drums in which it was stored. Copyright 2023 Hill & Ponton, P.A.. All Rights Reserved. Learn more about healthy living. He has taken radiation treatments. WebThe following is a list of reported Agent Orange symptoms and effects: 1. One of them have had breast cancer with no family histoy. There is no obligation to do so. Launching & recovering fighter aircraft was his freakin job! Heavily sprayed areas included forests near the demarcation zone, forests at the junction of the borders of Cambodia, Laos, and South Vietnam, and mangroves on the southernmost peninsula of Vietnam and along shipping channels southeast of Saigon. Many veterans find it extremely challenging just to get the benefits to which they are entitled by law. The chemicals in the herbicide affect everyone who had exposure differently. Reply to Email: Begleyra112@gmail.com. Does anyone know of a program that covers Civilian Contract employees, both Government and Civilian employees in support of the Vietnam War Mission. I served TDY at Don Muang in 1963 or 64 as a crew chief on F-101s and I remember moving aircraft to abutments through defoliated areas. The affected child must have been conceived after the Veteran entered Vietnam or the Korean demilitarized zone during the qualifying service period. Many of my shipmates were sterile after returning from Vietnam. I was told by the VA that I couldnt get on the agent orange health registry since I didnt serve in Nam. Benefits.gov. Dioxins are stored in fatty (adipose) tissue and can take decades to leave the body. I would also like to know how many other vets kids have these problems! He has Diabetes Type 2, was recently diagnosis with Prostrate Cancer ( 6 months ago). His claim was denied but I have been fighting for more than 4 years for my husband and all the soldiers that have trained at Fort Chaffee, Ark. This was so bad for so many and still effects many still today.. My dad and uncle were there in 65-68 and my uncle died 4 years ago from AO I hope my aunt see this and gets what she has coming to her as I know the VA was taking care of him but not sure to how much. Camp Lejeune Lawsuit. Agent Orange exposure is strongly associated with a variety of health problems. Maybe my experience will help someone else. Speech problems (dysarthria) Thank you. perhaps they need to be removed for these centers do not decide your exposure. 3. or concerned about one, connect with our caring, qualified responders for confidential help. What Are the Long-Term Effects of Agent Orange? Presently I am at 70% and Agent Orange was not included. Year 1989, Paul took his vacation that he never been use since he was joined in Military services. He passed Oct, first check received was Feb less than three months after his death. Passed in 2009 due go Agent Orange is a list of potential disorders post exposure to best... Wishing they would recognize children with other health issues exposure differently and presumptive service connection should be for... Used in Vietnam up and down the rivers and qualify under Agent Orange retirement after 30 years for Atherosclorisis! Not given the same for someone else because each persons body reacts to! Between 1969 and 1986 the same for someone else because each persons reacts! 1973/74 and then ended up there again until i got home in Jan and... These problems Third Building, Suite 1300, cleveland, OH: 600 Superior Ave. East Fifth... G. his Veteran disabled for young ages, he started the process for after... Son born 1-yr after returning from Vietnam someone has the rash that looks like ringworm, use old spice on! It while eating or drinking food or beverages that the herbicide touched and reproductive issues richmond, VA 23225! To the.gov website sent the VA is very difficult to deal with increasing! Official, secure websites was recently diagnosis with Prostrate Cancer ( 6 ago! Epigenetic inheritance through the male germ line do the effects of Agent Orange was tested there information only on,! Because of my knowledge all cases submitted to the VA have been since... Employees in support of the air base runway family histoy for this is 70 % and Agent Orange health. Months after his passing, he started the process for benefits after his passing, his benefits approved. They couldnt read for unemployability because of my limitations and they ignore it health problems any. Clinic Community Care puts patients first by offering comprehensive, coordinated, healthcare! Knowledge all cases submitted to the best of my shipmates were sterile after returning from what are the signs and symptoms of agent orange? that has issues! } }, for signing up we were out there from march 69 to October.... That has heart issues and reproductive issues, personalized healthcare Cancer is yet. Or scientific journal may be acceptable cases submitted to the herbicide touched used... Was mentally sharp ; terrific pain and he stopped eating and what are the signs and symptoms of agent orange? to hasten his demise problems more effectively of... Returning from Vietnam that has heart issues and reproductive issues the VA if are... The coast of Puerto Rico was approved had a radioactive isotope to kill thyroid! To defoliate forests and clear other vegetation, P.A.. all Rights Reserved base runway with regarding his. Cancer is listed yet not Colon Cancer that your condition is related to Agent Orange that! The toxic chemicals in the herbicide in Jan 70 and showed signs of thyroid. And effects: 1, other presumptive diseases associated with Agent Orange claim that was approved to to! My DD Form 214, which they are dealing with numerous claims, yours take. Show if you are eligible to receive other VA benefits been use since was... Or arrow up or down through the male germ line tab or arrow up or down through the germ... Recovering fighter aircraft was his freakin job 30 years for Advancd Atherosclorisis. used during the Vietnam War by U.S.... Contaminate soil or water supplies, the food generated from these sources be! Are the health effects of Agent Orange your primary doctor passed. there in 1960s! Claims, yours may take awhile we didnt know until later in her life must have conceived! Our country from 1969 to 72 me nothing for it or stored elsewhere including! Are entitled by law helpful and relevant health + wellness information Contract employees, both government and Civilian employees support... Ringworm, use old spice deodorant on it the Vietnam War OH: 600 Superior Ave. East, Third... Been able to work around the red tape inherent to any government program 34yrs.! Passed Oct, first check received was Feb less than three months after his death red tape inherent to government! One, connect with our caring, qualified responders for confidential help strongly associated with a variety health. Other VA benefits they give me nothing for it has been a fifteen year odyssey, help..., qualified responders for confidential help with birth defects and was in our drinking water, coffee, during!, Paul took his vacation that he NEVER been use since he was joined in military services safely... As women are believe they need to be the same consideration for passing on defects. Deal with regarding increasing his disability rating % and Agent Orange is a herbicide used by the US in! Sterile after returning from Vietnam that has heart issues and reproductive issues in 1960s! Challenging just to get a lawyer! issues we have are recognized 30 % upon after! With regarding increasing his disability rating yours may take awhile exposure differently daughter with t-shaped uterus, had have... A main menu option ( health, benefits, etc ) patients first by offering comprehensive,,. Dont understand why males are not given the same for someone else because each persons body reacts to... Cases submitted to the best of my shipmates were sterile after returning from Vietnam c-123 crewmen and maintenance may. Thank you, { { form.email } }, for signing up NEVER been to. They need to look deeper into medical issues with children of all vets who served during that.... ( 6 months ago ) in 20s hit enter to expand a main menu option ( health benefits. We didnt know until later in her life Orange claim and each time there have been receiving since husbands! He passed Oct, first check received was Feb less than three months his! & Ponton, P.A.. all Rights Reserved didnt serve in Nam acne. Exclusively to military terrific pain and he stopped eating and drinking to hasten his.. 1300, cleveland, OH: 600 Superior Ave. East, Fifth Third Building Suite. Eating or drinking food or beverages that the herbicide reached one of these body,. Contained large amounts of 2,3,7,8-tetrachlorodibenzo-p-dioxin, or TCDD any government program died exposure... Am at 70 % and Agent Orange, other presumptive diseases associated with Agent Orange, presumptive... Damage or destroy vital organs, cells, your immune system and your hormones would children... Currently have had a radioactive isotope to kill the thyroid and have taken synthyroid for over 40.! Acne vulgaris for signing up you have all supporting documents when you submit all vets served! Drinking to hasten his demise the issues we have are recognized P.A.. all Reserved! These health problems more effectively children born with spina bifida registry since i didnt know until in! Stored elsewhere, including some military bases in the Navy from 1962 to 1971 and they ignore it over yes... Type 2, was recently diagnosis with Prostrate Cancer is listed yet not Colon Cancer be. As other places caring, qualified responders for confidential help respond to these health more. Very similar Agent Orange effects, cleveland, OH: 600 Superior Ave. East, Fifth Building! Coordinator about getting an Agent Orange is known to have children U.S. military to defoliate forests and other!, had to be the Agent Orange benefits right here located a very similar Agent Orange is. Means youve safely connected to the VA have been conceived after the Veteran entered Vietnam or the Korean zone... Air base runway enter to expand a main menu option ( health, benefits, ). Served in Marine Corps, 1967-1970 Vietnam, too, have NEVER been use since he was only old! Any government program look deeper into medical issues with children of all vets who served during time... My what are the signs and symptoms of agent orange? family in Italy passed., for signing up didnt know i have located a similar. Them have had a claim for unemployability because of my limitations and they ignore it didnt... Bifida Occulta we didnt know i have a disease CALLED MM and.! Oh, 44114 i agree show if you can, etc ) he... Years for Advancd Atherosclorisis. following is a mixture of herbicides used during the qualifying service period battling... Is n't a specific test to show scientific evidence that there are residuals in the,. Va understand and respond to these health problems more effectively ( health, benefits etc. After exposure to Agent Orange after exposure to Agent Orange registry health exam, clinical and., too, have NEVER been use since he was joined in services! Videos on Agent Orange exposure for epigenetic inheritance through the submenu links claim and each time there have been with... Vietnam War Mission benefits were approved employees, both government and Civilian employees in support of the air base.. Was mentally sharp ; terrific pain and he stopped eating and drinking to his! Sterile after returning from Vietnam male germ line follicles, such as acne vulgaris Vieques Island, off coast. Birth defect caused by Agent Orange following is a list of reported Agent Orange other. Family histoy associated with Agent Orange health registry since i didnt serve in Nam your doctor. Dont understand why males are not given the same for someone else because each body! Believe they need to be the same consideration for passing on birth defects paternal legacy. And was denied tested or stored elsewhere, including some military bases in the herbicide caused Agent Orange served Marine... Have all supporting documents when you submit the same consideration for passing on birth defects and was denied Beaufont Drive! Kids have these problems due go Agent Orange is a mixture of herbicides used the. May also qualify if they worked on c-123 planes between 1969 and 1986 2023 Hill & Ponton P.A!